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  • #7559
    Anonymous

      Our Strata Plan has 12 apartments and the Plan of Subdivision states “Interior Face: All Boundaries”.

      One lot owner has started a major renovation which involves demolishing interior walls, demolishing the kitchen and bathroom and removing fixed wall and floor coverings (tiles and hardwood). So a fair bit of Common Property is involved (eg the floor coverings and fixtures on perimeter walls) and the lot is now almost an empty shell.   We also have a common fire sprinkler system in all the lots installed to AS2118 specifications.   The lot owner asked for permission by email to our OC Manager, who replied saying “Your lot is yours and you can do anything as long as it complies with Building Regulations”.

      Does the OC Manager have authority to give such approval?  Or should the Manager have referred it to the Committee or to a general meeting?  I would imagine that the OC would want to ensure that the building’s structural integrity is maintained and that with any new room layout, the fire sprinklers are re-installed in accordance with AS2118 (as the safety of the whole building is affected).

      At our AGM both the Manager and the Committee were delegated all OC powers and functions under Section 11 of the OC Act 2006 (Victoria).  This means everything other than a power or function that requires a Unanimous Resolution or a Special Resolution.

      So is it the case that either the Manager or the Committee can give approval and that one need not inform the other of their decision (the Manager did not inform the Committee)?  And is an email exchange considered written approval?

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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    • #13482
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Victorian Strata Law is far from my area of expertise but I would think there are three things that apply here.

        1.  Your by-laws – what do they say about renovations in general and removing or changing common property?

        2.  What do the strata laws say?

        3.  What do local council by-laws say?

        Have a look at this document HERE. It’s an article on this very topic in Australian Property Investor magazine. It’s a bit general but it does say this: “Before renovating your apartment you should realistically assume you require approval of the OC and, possibly, local council.”

        A glance at Victorian legislation suggests that significant alterations affecting common property would require a special resolution, rather than just a simple approval.

        Maybe one of our Vic-minded readers has more on this.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #13483
        Anonymous

          Thanks for the reply JimmyT

          Re the points:

          1.  Your by-laws – what do they say about renovations in general and removing or changing common property?  They are the standard Model Rules.  In Victoria these state : “(1) An owner or occupier of a lot must not damage or alter the common property without the written approval of the owners corporation.”

          2.  What do the strata laws say?  As above, as we have just the Model Rules.

          3.  What do local council by-laws say?  Interior building renovations do not need Council approval.  Changing Essential Services such as fire sprinklers might need to conform to other laws.  And of course Building Regulations would always apply.

          I already gave a copy of the document you suggested to the lot owner.

          But all the above misses the problem somewhat.  Our OC Manager has told owners that their lots are private property and they do not need permission from the OC for any renovations.

          I disagree with our Manager.  I think all renovations need written approval by the OC so that the OC can determine if Common Property is affected or not.  The OC might want to be sure that the renovations do not affect the building’s structural integrity or any common services used elsewhere in the building.  And the OC would want to be certain that fire safety systems are maintained to standards etc.

          I’m trying to find documentation that clearly defines what is Common Property within a lot boundary in Victoria. Our Plan of Subdivision states that “All structural walls, slabs, beams, columns and ducts … are deemed to be part of Common Property.” And all lot perimeter walls and floors are marked as Common Property.  I think that common services (eg the fire sprinklers) are Common Property and that fixtures attached to Common Property walls and floors are also Common Property.  But I can't find any legal document that says this.

          That our OC Manager has deemed lots to be private property and therefore not needing any OC approval is the issue.  Is the OC Manager correct?

          #13495

          Austman & Jimmy,

          In NSW S116 of the act covers off owners requirements to a degree, as to what they need to do before altering any internal walls. This involves getting engineering advice that the walls are non structural and giving notice of proposed works 14 days prior.

          Most OC’s will have introduced a works by-law that governs the process and responsibilities for renovations and there are a couple of good ones floating around.

          The situation described above is pretty ordinary.

          Mr Strata

          #13485
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            Yeah … but this issue is in Victoria … different planet when it comes to strata.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #13514
            Anonymous

              [I have to jump in here and point out that Austman is talking about Victorian strata law – don't assume that any of this applies in NSW or anywhere else … but don't assume that none of it does, either. – JImmyT]

              There is an amazing lack of information about this!  And it’s incredibly important.

              Here is my research and what I think are the facts.

              Lot Renovations

              1. Owners corporation permission is required by the lot owner

              A lot owner should always obtain written owners corporation permission before starting any lot renovation because it is most likely that any renovation (other than simple decorating) will affect the common property inside the lot in some way or might affect the services that are used by more than just the lot. The owners corporation is responsible for this common property and the services.

              Lot renovations that involve major demolition and wall rearrangements could need assessment of the building’s structural integrity and the lot’s fire sprinkler system which are both of safety importance to all who reside in the building.

              All renovations will need to comply with building regulations.

               

              2. What common property exists inside a lot?

              Common property inside a lot is shown on the Plan of Subdivision. Where the Plan of Subdivision states “Interior Face: All Boundaries” and “All structural walls, slabs, beams, columns and ducts are deemed to be part of common property”, common property inside a lot includes:

                 1.      All lot perimeter walls, floors, ceilings, perimeter windows, perimeter doors.
                 2.      All lot structural walls, slabs, beams, columns and ducts.
                 3.      All surfaces within a lot that have been fixed to perimeter walls, floors or ceilings.

               

              3. What services could exist inside the lot that are for the benefit of more than one lot and the common property?

                 1.      Electricity.
                 2.      Water.
                 3.      Gas.
                 4.      Drainage.
                 5.      TV.
                 6.      Fire sprinkler systems.

               

              4. The Law

              The Owners Corporation Act 2006 states:

                 1.      An owners corporation must repair and maintain the common property.
                 2.      An owners corporation must repair and maintain a service in or relating to a lot that is for the benefit of more than one lot and the common property.

              The owners corporation Model Rules states:

                 1.      An owner or occupier of a lot must not damage or alter the common property without the written approval of the owners corporation.
                 2.      An owner or occupier of a lot must not damage or alter a structure that forms part of the common property without the written approval of the owners corporation.

              #13517
              Anonymous

                [I have to jump in here and point out that Austman is talking about Victorian strata law – don't assume that any of this applies in NSW or anywhere else … but don't assume that none of it does, either. – JImmyT]

                 

                Quite correct!  And it's just my opinion too!

                The Law quotes are however correct for Victoria.

                #13520
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  And this is what it says in the NSW Strata Act:

                  Part 1 Responsibilities of owners, occupiers and other persons relating to lots

                  116   Owners, occupiers and other persons not to interfere with structure of lot or services to lot

                  (1)  An owner, mortgagee or covenant chargee in possession (whether in person or not), lessee or occupier of a lot must not do anything or permit anything to be done on or in relation to that lot so that:

                  (a)  any support or shelter provided by that lot for another lot or common property is interfered with, or

                  (b)  the passage or provision of water, sewage, drainage, gas, electricity, garbage, artificially heated or cooled air, heating oil and other services (including telephone, radio and television services) through or by means of any pipes, wires, cables or ducts for the time being in the lot is interfered with.

                  (2)  The owner of a lot must not alter the structure of the lot without giving to the owners corporation, not later than 14 days before commencement of the alteration, a written notice describing the proposed alteration.

                  NB:  There’s no requirement for written permission, just 14 days notice.

                  In the Schedule 1 By-laws (which are only operative if adopted by the Owners or by default if the Owners have not adopted any by-laws):

                  5   Damage to common property

                  (1)  An owner or occupier of a lot must not mark, paint, drive nails or screws or the like into, or otherwise damage or deface, any structure that forms part of the common property without the approval in writing of the owners corporation.

                  they go on to say …

                  (3)  This by-law does not prevent an owner or person authorised by an owner from installing:

                  (a)  any locking or other safety device for protection of the owner’s lot against intruders, or

                  (b)  any screen or other device to prevent entry of animals or insects on the lot, or

                  (c)  any structure or device to prevent harm to children.

                  In the NSW Model by-laws for residential strata schemes in the 2010 Regulations (which are also not in force unless adopted by the Owners Corporation), there’s an additional sub-clause that allows some work:

                  (d) any device used to affix decorative items to the internal surfaces of walls in the owner’s lot, unless the device is likely to affect the operation of fire safety devices in the lot or to reduce the level of safety in the lots or common property.

                  And then, of course, there are the individual by-laws for each strata plan which can cover things like how and when you can do noisy work, how to get materials in and rubble out and, as we never tire of telling you all, differ from building to building.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #13694
                  drshelley
                  Flatchatter

                    Our neighbours directly above our unit have started to do renovations to their property – they have provided the secretary of the OC (we are self-managed) with a copy of an engineers certificate showing what internal walls are to be removed etc and what supports will be installed to maintain the structural integrity.  The secretary circulated a copy of the engineer's report to each owner asking if anyone had any concerns about the proposed renovations.   The renovations have now commenced – but I thought the OC had to give authorisation – what is liability if something goes wrong without such authorisation.   I understand the owner has insurance.  We only have the model by-laws but also there is a list of 'house rules'.  We are in NSW.

                    #13699
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      I would think your local council's planning department might also want to have a look, given that there are structural changes involved.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #13700
                      Austman
                      Flatchatter

                        I suspect the local council would only be interested if the renovation changed the exterior of the building in any way.

                        In VIC at least, it seems that any interior renovations (i.e. that do not change a lot's boundary) can be approved by just the Manager or the Committee.  This includes any interior renovation that affects Common Property inside the lot. VCAT decision C3990, stated that.

                        https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-…..uery=C3990

                        #13703
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster

                          That's really interesting. It must be one of those things that varies from State to State and perhaps council to council.

                          I just called City of Sydney planning department and they said, among other things (like heritage issues), you can't change the configuration of rooms without  council planning approval.

                          I'm not questioning Austman's information but it does seem strange to me that you could make structural changes to a building without any competent oversight authority's approval.

                          My advice would be, check with your local council's planning department (or risk an order to reinstate if everything goes pear-shaped).

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                          #13706
                          Austman
                          Flatchatter

                            Hi JimmyT,

                            You are quite correct.  Here in inner Melbourne a building permit is required for interior renovations too, but only for: 

                            “Internal work to your house that requires windows or walls to be moved or altered”.

                            But all other interior renovations do not need council approval. So new kitchens, bathrooms, flooring etc do not need it.  It's very different for exterior renovations!

                            #13735
                            Drew
                            Flatchatter

                              Jimmyt wrote:

                              That’s really interesting. It must be one of those things that varies from State to State and perhaps council to council.I just called City of Sydney planning department and they said, among other things (like heritage issues), you can’t change the configuration of rooms without  council planning approval. I’m not questioning Austman’s information but it does seem strange to me that you could make structural changes to a building without any competent oversight authority’s approval. My advice would be, check with your local council’s planning department (or risk an order to reinstate if everything goes pear-shaped).

                              That advice is largely incorrect Jimmy.

                              You can undertake that work as complying development except if it is a heritage item.

                               

                              Means you don’t have to go down the DA path and wait for 3+ months for Council to assess it – 10 day approval timeframe and then start work which is a pretty major cost saving.

                               

                              The complying development process should taken into account BCA and structural issues.

                              #13740
                              Jimmy-T
                              Keymaster

                                I've decided long ago that what makes me unique in Strata is that I'm the only person who's ever wrong. But which part of what I said is “largely incorrect”?

                                That it varies from place to place? There are differences between states but the NSW councils have to abide by the state law on this. That said, I've looked at the websites of several councils in NSW and they all have slightly different forms for you to fill in so, unfortunately, there's no one-size-fits-all answer to this.

                                As far as what City of Sydney said about needing approval before you can alter the internal floor plan, I was just passing on what they told me.

                                However, Drew hjas raidsed an interesting point and the “complying development” situation is interesting (even though I could only find the briefest mention of strata in the Act). Have a look for yourselves HERE. Once again, it seems we are an afterthought – even bed and breakfast establishments get their own section.

                                Then there is this intriguing  exclusion from complying development.

                                4.4   Development standardsThe standards specified for that development are that the development:

                                (b)  must not result in a change to the floor area of the dwelling house

                                Does that mean a change to the size of the floor area or its configuration?  I don't know (although it sounds like the former).

                                Drew, you may well be correct and clearly there are even substantial changes to the internals of a unit that need not affect anyone else. 

                                However, knocking down supporting walls would obviously not be “complying” and what about, for instance,  moving a bathroom so that it's over a bedroom?

                                Also, for any substantial change that doesn't require a DA, it seems you do need a  Complying Development Certificate – you can't just decide you don't need a DA and go ahead. 

                                Maybe that's when the alarm bells start ringing and someone tells you you might need a proper approval.

                                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                                #13744
                                Jimmy-T
                                Keymaster

                                  Drew said:

                                  That advice is largely incorrect Jimmy.
                                  You can undertake that work as complying development except if it is a heritage item.

                                   

                                  This just in – council forces owner to remove additional internal walls HERE

                                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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