- This topic has 45 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by .
-
Topic
-
We have a few residents who like to hang their laundry on drying racks in their garages. This is within their lots. Though there are sometimes items of laundry hanging from garage doors, which is common property.
The bylaw referring to laundry reads “an owner or occupier..must not..hang any washing…..in such a way as to be visible from outside building other than on any lines provided by the owners corporation…”
We are a complex of townhouses. So does outside the building mean from the driveway? We all have our own clothes lines so the owners corp doesn't provide any.
This is where I believe bylaws should have “appendix A” etc to distinguish one strata from another. Definition of “outside building” would mean one thing for an apartment block, another for this? Do we take this to mean outside the individual unit or from the street? Can residents argue that the OC should provide lines that facilitate drying better in the colder weather?
As I struggled to nagivate through the myriad of clothes drying racks positioned around my unit, I do sympathise with the plight of drying washing in this cold, grey weather with the prospect rising power prices. I do not, however, wish my home and its surrounds looking similar to a street market in Bali.
-
Replies
-
Whale, your post is not fair at all. The world needs a contrarian or two. Our High Court will actually miss one of the most famous in the future who was almost always correct in his thinking.
There are obviously two clear sides to the argument about balcony washing, Whale, and the Flat Chat Forum shouldn’t just be exclusive to one and shout the other down. (By the way, when I referred to the episode of South Park called ‘Smug’ I explained what you refer to as an obscure reference.)
Now, look up ‘clothes drying on apartment balconies’ on Google Images, like I just did, and get back to me please.
To JimmyT, Apartmentalize was implying I favour electric clothes dryers over ‘hanging’ which is not true. That’s not fair, is it?
Jun Durection said:There are obviously two clear sides to the argument about balcony washing … the Flat Chat Forum shouldn’t just be exclusive to one and shout the other down.
First of all, I think you’ll find the washing on balconies viewpoints are fairly evenly divided here. Even if they aren’t, people don’t get “shouted down”. You get your fair share of space and if someone disagrees that’s part of the debate that you claim to want. I disagree with you but if I wanted to “shout you down”, your posts would never see the light of day.Please don’t misunderstand me, quote me out of context or verbal me guys.If you don’t want to be misunderstood, it is incumbent on you to express yourself more clearly or at least correct the perceived misconception when it occurs. I have been writing professionally for much too long to admit in public but I still assume that if someone misunderstands what I’ve written, it’s my fault, not theirs.How have you been quoted out of context? This IS the context. Being quoted out of context is usually an excuse used by politicians who have been caught saying something they shouldn’t have said when they thought no one who disagreed with them was listening (viz Allan Jones, Mitt Romney et al).As for “verballing” – my understanding of that is that it’s taking a few words you have said and distorting the intended meaning. None of that has happened here.The world needs a contrarian or two.A “contrarian”, in my view, is summed up be this definition from the Urban Dictionary: “A person who disagrees with the mainstream or accepted view because he believes it makes him look good and feeds his ego, not because his argument is well thought-out or rational.”There are other definitions and maybe you didn’t mean that one but if that IS you, please take it elsewhere. We have enough to do dealing with genuinely held contrary opinions without having people deliberately polarising the discussion, just for the hell of it.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Gee whiz JimmyT, moderator, I’ve only stated a different point of view a couple of times in my Flat Chat history, on maybe a couple of different issues and just look at what happens to me when I do!
Well, I suppose it IS your forum.
I notice Arpartmentalize realised he had, at the least, quoted me out of context and reneged slightly, though I wonder what he means by “those with an agenda”.
I do hope you will look up ‘clothes drying on apartment balconies’ on Google Images. I’m looking forward to a thread on satellite dishes for balconies too.
And thanks for clueing-me-up on how I’m misusing expressions too. I can’t wait to add that Urban Dictionary to my Apps either.
But on a more serious note, you accuse me of “deliberately polarising the discussion just for the hell of it???” Maaaatttte???
@Juan Durection said:
But on a more serious note, you accuse me of “deliberately polarising the discussion just for the hell of it???”
I referred to “people” deliberately polarising the the discussion … If I had meant you I would have said you.
Good example of quoting out of context and verballing though.
What a waste of time and space this is. No more!
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
Boys, as a newbie here at Flat Chat, does anyone really think hanging washing on balconies looks nice? Personally, I’d hate it if someone did that when I was selling my apartment, or I saw it attending an ‘open for inspection’ to buy or lease. I’d walk right on past.
BTW, having waded through the posts on this topic just now, I think Juan was entitled to think you were accusing him of of “deliberately polarising the discussion just for the hell of it” JimmyT. Everyone has really gone for him.
Morticia, there are ‘girls’ as well as boys who contribute to Flat Chat.
Contributors to this thread have given a range of opinions and while washing on all sorts of makeshift or removable lines or airers may not ‘look’ good, I think that we can get used to anything.
Sydney has had a very cold winter and a hot summer is predicted with possible power worker strikes. Our latest electricity bill is the highest it has ever been because we needed heaters on for a longer period. Many people can not afford the latest in heating or cooling and so use more power hungry methods, and try to save electricity by not using dryers for their clothes.
Maybe Owners Corporations need to look at ways to help people dry clothes in the sun so that is not so ‘in your face’. Older blocks had clothes drying areas but allocation of lines at convenient times, and sometimes theft was a problem. Most modern blocks do not have a yard although maybe the roof area could be modified?
Instead of seeing red tiles when flying into Sydney, travellers would be welcomed by flapping washing!
Good on you FlatChatFan, constructive post I thought. Perhaps you and maybe others besides me have taken Juan’s suggestion and Googled ‘clothes drying on apartment balconies’ and not enamoured with what they saw
I am a big fan of washing lines. To me there is nothing nicer than washing dried in the sun and fresh air, rather than being tumbled around in a hot box. From an environmental and power use point of view, I don’t understand why people would opt for a drier, when they have a free alternative available to them that is kinder on their clothes etc. Of course not everyone has that option available to them, but we do have a clothesline and almost everyone here shares my view.
There is one person who doesn’t like the clothesline. They recently sabotaged it so when I was hanging the washing the one end of it came crashing down on my head. Now that is just stupid and childish and if they think this will convince us to get rid of the clothesline, they have another think coming.
I don’t think washing hung on a hoist for a brief period of time is offensive, provided it is brought in when it is dry, it is only washing.
I am interested to know what others think of this issue please.
We have 4 lots in our strata plan. We also have a huge grassy backyard.
Opening onto this back yard is the side door of a garage of Lot 1, the side door of a garage of Lot 2, the door of the common laundry and the back door of the residence of Lot 4. Lot 4 is also 2 storey & has a rear balcony overlooking this common back yard. (Lot 4 also has a front balcony overlooking a grassy but much smaller yard that is also in front of the other 3 lots and is visible from the street).
The owner of Lot 4 states objections to a common clothes line in this common back yard with a common laundry opening onto it because it would spoil their view of the back yard.
Interestingly, there is a small wall clothes line in the side yard but it is in the shade and is not enough for all residents BUT the owner (wife/mother of a family of 4 people) of Lot 4 whom is the only resident home all day, uses and monopolises this clothes line with 2-3 loads every single day & hangs washing out late at night to use most of the line before those whom are working full time, can get to it.
What do you think about this? Unreasonable? Valid reason?
Morticia and Juan Durection, not all clotheslines have to be “on display”. Appropriately worded by-laws (or simply common agreement by owners!) can permit outside clothes drying that doesn’t have the washing visible, eg. clothes-horses must be equal in height or lower than balcony railings so as not to be visible from the street, or in a concealed alcove of the balcony (some buildings have an outside, but concealed area for this now). You can get airers that clip onto the balcony railing and face inward to provide concealed drying space.
There’s a range of products out that can help with this sort of stuff -e.g.
https://www.shopbot.com.au/ps-meliconi-lock-balcony-clothes-airer-36943930.html
https://www.lifestyleclotheslines.com.au/versaline-up-away-ceiling-mounted-clothes-airer/
@Very Nice landlord, since you likely only need a majority to install another clothesline on common property, I don’t think Lot 4’s objections finally matter. Obviously it would be preferable to have some level of agreement – can perhaps a retractable line be installed, so it’s only out when actually in use? Since it sounds like they’re treating the common yard as ‘theirs’ (ie monopolizing the line, assuming the ‘view’ is all theirs) maybe you may need to take a sterner view though?
apartmentalize
I appreciate your post & information however, as installing a new hills hoist clothes line in the back yard is adding something new to common property, we actually require a special resolution which is at least 75% of the votes.
Lot 4 has 45% & this has been the cause of many of our problems. In effect, if Lot 4 calls ‘poll’ on votes (& has done so many times in the past) we cannot add to, change, or alter common property.
They have said that if/when they move back to the property, they will remove the clothes line. They do not care that their tenants, with their 1 year old baby, value this clothes line greatly.
We have a drop down clothes line in the shaded side yard but the position in which we have installed the hills hoist (ie 3 of the 4 owners with a combined unit entitlement of only 55% WITHOUT authorisation) is the sunniest part of the back yard, near the common laundry which, to us, is common sense. We have tested many, many, many things in the Tribunal but this time, we just DID IT as we are SO over the many months & application fees to achieve something that is so common sense, it is not funny. Our view now, is let him remove it if he ever moves back (so not going to happen as he has a adult family of 4 that he squeezed into a 2 bedroom unit for 10 years) & we will address it then.
I am still interested in the view of others about his rationale of it not being nice for his ‘view’ of the property. Also, some prospective buyers of Lot 4 have said “Oh, isn’t this back yard all our own?” & when told no, “Oh, so who uses this laundry & who uses this clothes line & do we have to see other people’s underpants on this clothes line?” I admit, our property is poorly designed but I have seen so many other properties with facilities in the common back yard & their owners don’t carry on like this dude.
@Very Nice Landlord said:
apartmentalizeI appreciate your post & information however, as installing a new hills hoist clothes line in the back yard is adding something new to common property, we actually require a special resolution which is at least 75% of the votes.
Lot 4 has 45% & this has been the cause of many of our problems. In effect, if Lot 4 calls ‘poll’ on votes (& has done so many times in the past) we cannot add to, change, or alter common property.
They have said that if/when they move back to the property, they will remove the clothes line. They do not care that their tenants, with their 1 year old baby, value this clothes line greatly.
We have a drop down clothes line in the shaded side yard but the position in which we have installed the hills hoist (ie 3 of the 4 owners with a combined unit entitlement of only 55% WITHOUT authorisation) is the sunniest part of the back yard, near the common laundry which, to us, is common sense. We have tested many, many, many things in the Tribunal but this time, we just DID IT as we are SO over the many months & application fees to achieve something that is so common sense, it is not funny. Our view now, is let him remove it if he ever moves back (so not going to happen as he has a adult family of 4 that he squeezed into a 2 bedroom unit for 10 years) & we will address it then.
I am still interested in the view of others about his rationale of it not being nice for his ‘view’ of the property. Also, some prospective buyers of Lot 4 have said “Oh, isn’t this back yard all our own?” & when told no, “Oh, so who uses this laundry & who uses this clothes line & do we have to see other people’s underpants on this clothes line?” I admit, our property is poorly designed but I have seen so many other properties with facilities in the common back yard & their owners don’t carry on like this dude.
It is a losing batle
We have no common property clothes line but all Lots have a small balcony with a clothes line that can not be seen from the street but several still use the balcony for drying washing.
When the item is raised at the AGM the strata agent recomends no futher action that is supported by the majority of members attending that hang their washing on the balcony visible from the street
Hi All, I believe in addressing both the asthetics as well as the practical and cost saving. What we have in our plan is an outdoor area with clothes lines that have screeenining walls. We also approve of drying of laundry on balconies and courtyards using a clothes horse so long as the height is not above the height of the balcony railing and NEVER is laundry to be hung over balcony railings. I think I have posted this previously. We need to consider first of all the appearance of our plan and property value, we do not wish to appear a shanty town but with increased electricity costs it would be just plain stupid to not dry laundry naturally.
I believe the Strata Regulations are now changing to reflect this.
cdinoz, have you checked the bylaws for your plan? Look carefully at the wording you may not actually be in breach!
Cheers CBF
@Juan Durection said:
Why not just do as they ask, cdinoz, and stop the action that is offending someone and is against the house rules and which they are asking you to stop? Put your “small clothes horse” inside in some out-of-the-way place. Seems easy enough to me. Keep the tone and value of the building that little bit better.Prey do tell, in a small apartment – where does this mythical “out of the way place” exist?
@considerate band fair said:
Hi All, I believe in addressing both the asthetics as well as the practical and cost saving. What we have in our plan is an outdoor area with clothes lines that have screeenining walls. We also approve of drying of laundry on balconies and courtyards using a clothes horse so long as the height is not above the height of the balcony railing and NEVER is laundry to be hung over balcony railings. I think I have posted this previously. We need to consider first of all the appearance of our plan and property value, we do not wish to appear a shanty town but with increased electricity costs it would be just plain stupid to not dry laundry naturally.I believe the Strata Regulations are now changing to reflect this.
cdinoz, have you checked the bylaws for your plan? Look carefully at the wording you may not actually be in breach!
Cheers CBF
I also think the bigger complexes could actually sell “approved” floor standing lines from the building managing offices.
And in regards to checking the bylaws – yes, I have checked the small print. The actual small print is also on my actual lease contract, which I could probably win from a semantics perspective (and I do love how courts like being pedantic)…. is that our lease and the bylaws constantly talk about “balconies”.
Last time I looked outside my apartment, I was on the ground floor, and not entirely sure where my “balcony” hangs from – being on the ground?
If my lease stated “balcony / courtyard or other outdoor area” – I would agree I may be breaching by hanging washing outside… but as I live with a small “courtyard” and not a “balcony”….
Besides, after I had the last letter from the strata company along with a photo of my courtyard, I called the strata and asked for the name of the person who took the photo, as I was wanting to know who the “peeping tom” was, as I was taking the matter to the police.
Strangely, I haven’t heard anything since then….
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.