› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Levies and Unit Entitlements › Current Page
- This topic has 49 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by .
-
CreatorTopic
-
21/10/2016 at 10:15 pm #10690
again we are having more problems with the initial owner / developer of our 14 unit strata scheme. Early in 2016 the developer advised us and the other owner ( only 2 Apartments had been sold) that we would need to pay 1/3 of the very large water bill received by him as we were the only people living in the complex. He said he would also pay 1/3 even though he only lived here part time. This was despite the fact that he had a full time maintenance person who was watering lawns sometimes overnight and from time to time left the hose on for days at a time . In addition to our quarterly levy we paid the developer our lot percentage amount ( 7%) of this water account .
Two more people have now bought in to our Strata scheme, the initial owner/developer has now sent our new neighbours and us an email stating that we are indebted to him and due to this outstanding debt we do not have the right to vote at the First AGM which he intends to hold shortly. He has also stated in that same email that he would not support our nominations for a position on the Strata Committee and as he has the majority vote then he will have the say, he says. He still owns 10 units and now intends to transfer one to his partner (who is an overseas country citizen) so he can retain the majority vote.
My questions are these :
1. How should we respond if he does not allow us to vote at the first AGM?
2. How should we dispute his claims that we owe him money for the water?
3. Should we apply direct to NCAT for an adjudicator to appoint a Strata Managing Agent so this guy can be removed from his position of “Owners Corporation” during this initial period?
Your advice on this would be very much appreciated
-
CreatorTopic
-
AuthorReplies
-
21/10/2016 at 10:53 pm #25607
PS I forgot to mention that we are in NSW
21/10/2016 at 11:07 pm #25608First and foremost, I have to say that the advice I am giving below is just my personal opinion and is not professional legal advice. I am just explaining the possible grounds for a response but I urge you to seek proper legal advice from a specialist strata lawyer as soon as possible.
There are certain fundamentals related to all this, not least that you can’t be charged levies calculated on any other basis than your Unit Entitlements, so I believe the bills that you have been presented with are invalid because they have not been calculated in accordance with the law.
If you haven’t already done so, send the owner a letter (or letters) telling them that their bills breach of Section 78(2) of the Strata Schemes Management Act 1996
78 Manner of levying contributions
(1) An owners corporation levies a contribution required to be paid to the administrative fund or sinking fund by an owner of a lot by serving on the owner a written notice of the contribution payable.
(2) Contributions levied by an owners corporation must be levied in respect of each lot and are payable … by the owners in shares proportional to the unit entitlements of their respective lots.
If the original owner proceeds with the meeting and prevents you from voting, there are also processes at NCAT whereby you can get orders to invalidate decisions made at meetings that were not held in accordance with the Act.
You can also apply for financial assistance in pursuing legal claims.
So my first step in your shoes would be to approach an experienced strata lawyer and get them to write a letter to the developer explaining what he can and can’t do and why.
This is important because if at some time you need to overturn decisions made at the meeting and extract the costs of doing so, you want to be able to prove that the owner was aware that he was breaching the law.
So find a reliable strata lawyer (one of our sponsors is a leader in this field) and get them to send the letter and do whatever you need done, including getting the owner to pay for your legal advice.
If you don’t have time to organise that, then send the owner a letter telling them that they are in breach of the Strata Schemes Management Act and you will be challenging the validity of any meeting under sections 153 and 154 of the Act (see below) and that you will pursue orders under section 162 of the Act for the statutory appointment of a strata manager until such times as a properly constituted first AGM can be held.
Having said that, this is very tricky and you really need to get a strata lawyer on board as soon as possible because I can’t give you professional advice on this.
A good strata lawyer will be able to sort this out with a letter and find a way of making your developer pay for it.
153 Order invalidating resolution of owners corporation
(1) An Adjudicator may make an order invalidating any resolution of, or election held by, the persons present at a meeting of an owners corporation if the Adjudicator considers that the provisions of this Act have not been complied with in relation to the meeting.
(2) An Adjudicator may refuse to make an order under this section but only if the Adjudicator considers:
(a) that the failure to comply with the provisions of this Act did not adversely affect any person, and
(b) that compliance with the provisions of this Act would not have resulted in a failure to pass the resolution or have affected the result of the election.
(3) An application for an order under this section may be made only by an owner or first mortgagee of a lot.
154 Order where voting rights denied or due notice of item of business not given
(1) An Adjudicator may order that a resolution passed at a general meeting of an owners corporation be treated as a nullity on and from the date of the order if satisfied that the resolution would not have been passed but for the fact that the applicant for the order:
(a) was improperly denied a vote on the motion for the resolution, or
(b) was not given due notice of the item of business in relation to which the resolution was passed.
(2) An application for an order under this section may not be made after 28 days after the date of the meeting at which the resolution was passed.
(3) If an order under this section is made in relation to a resolution making a by-law or amending or repealing another by-law and the order has been recorded as provided by section 209, the by-laws have force and effect on and from the date the order is so recorded to the same extent as they would have had if the resolution had not been passed.
(4) Subsection (3) is subject to the by-laws having been or being amended or repealed in accordance with this Act and to any relevant order made by a superior court.
(5) An application for an order under this section may be made only by a person entitled to vote on the motion for the resolution concerned.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
21/10/2016 at 11:43 pm #25610Many thanks once again Jimmy. I will contact a Strata Law Firm asap however we are located in a small coastal town at least 6.5 hours from Sydney so I hope we do not need to attend at the Law Office.
your information is always appreciated and I take your point that you are giving a personal opinion not legal advice.
Thank you so much for your prompt reply.
29/10/2016 at 8:44 am #25672I spoke at length with my Man from the Ministry who confirm that the original owner (developer) is liable for debts calculated on the basis of his retained ownership of the remaining units and their unit entitlements.
By sending out incorrect invoices, he is in breach of the Act which requires him to base levies on accurate estimates of costs.
My contact suggests checking this with Fair Trading by sending a question on this online form. You want a direction in writing from Fair Trading as to the correct procedure the developer should be following which you can then pass to him
He also suggests that you and the other owners pay contributions calculated on the basis of your unit entitlements so that you are still ‘financial’ and can vote at the AGM.
At the AGM, you can ask for evidence that the developer has paid his proper share of contributions. If he hasn’t, he can’t vote. Even if he can, he will be in the minority provided all of you purchasers stick together.
Serious irregularities at the AGM may well reult in it being declared invalid
The question of the caretaker contract is very worrisome. All such contracts negotiated before the first AGM have to be approved at the AGM or they fall over. I worry that your developer may have signed a feather-bedded contract from which he has received payment but which you have to service.
If you get to the AGM, either reject the contract until such times as other quotes can be viewed and considered or, at the very least, limit the contract to one year.
If you can possible do so, delay the AGM until after November 30 when a whole new set of owner-friendly laws come in.
And when you get there, choose a size of strata committee that would exclude the developer who sounds like a bully and is already a nightmare to deal with.
If only three owners want to be on the committee, make it a committee of three (you vote on the size of the strata committee before the election) and don’t elect the developer.
These small scale developers need to realise that when they sell units, they don’t belong to them any more.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
01/11/2016 at 6:25 pm #25693Incredible how some people seem to think they can just make up rules to suit themselves, especially when it means getting others to pay their bills.
I have had a landlord bill me for rates and other expenses on a property because he couldn’t afford it and disagreed with the current system. According to him, the tenant should pay everything.
He then tried to have me evicted because I would not pay these bills, as invoiced.
Finally, when I eventually moved out, he tried to withhold the bond in lieu of these payments and still disagreed when the tribunal ruled against him.
Please keep us informed. I would love to see how this situation plays out.
05/11/2016 at 6:03 pm #25721Further troubles with our developer who still owns 10 of the 14 units in our NSW Apartment block. Now that 4 apartments have been sold he is in the process of transferring one of his currently owned Apartment to his wife so that they will be able to have 4 votes ( 1/3 of his own + 1 for her) and will then just need one of the new owners to vote with him to have a majority vote. He has advised us that at the AGM which he intends to hold before Christmas he will ensure that a vote is taken to ratify his decision to backdate the water bills so that from the time the first person bought into this Strata Scheme, water bills were to be divided equally amongst the number of owners in the Scheme. This means our neighbour would be liable for half the water account for the quarter she moved in ( shared with him), and we and she would be liable for one third each of the next 5 quarterly bills from from the time we moved in ( shared with him).
He has now changed the contracts of sale for the two newest owners ( they are different to the first two contracts of sale) so that new owners buying in will pay for 270kl per year.
My questions are these:
1. Can the AGM or any meeting for that matter, vote to backdate costs by a different division than the lot entitlements of owners?
2. Can some owners be charged a fee based on one system and others be charged by a different system?
3. Are we correct in stating that we pay our $2400 contribution in quarterly instalments so should not be being billed for other costs of the Strata Scheme.
10/11/2016 at 12:31 pm #25735@Faraway girl said:
My questions are these:1. Can the AGM or any meeting for that matter, vote to backdate costs by a different division than the lot entitlements of owners?
2. Can some owners be charged a fee based on one system and others be charged by a different system?
3. Are we correct in stating that we pay our $2400 contribution in quarterly instalments so should not be being billed for other costs of the Strata Scheme.
OK, first of all, you re-sent this (I deleted it) presumably because you didn’t get an immediate answer. By all means nudge us for a reply but please don’t re-send in the same or different forum.
Moving on, you need to get an official letter from Fair Trading with answers to all your questions which you can then pass on to the developer.
You should already be contacting a strata manager with whom you can go to NCAT asking for a section 162 statutory appointment of a strata manager.
This person is breaking the law in so many ways it’s hard to know where to begin. You need a letter from Fair Trading (Ph 13 32 20) detailing the correct procedure. Your developer is getting some very bad legal advice (I doubt if his wife will be considered a different owner for the purposes of the vote at the AGM).
I understand you found the legal advice offered too expensive so you have to do this yourself. So here is what I would do:
1. Get Fair Trading to give you a detailed letter of what the correct procedure is. Contact them by phone and fine the right person to speak to so that you get an official letter from them.
2. Send the developer a letter detailing all the breaches , including a copy of the letter, and warning him that you will challenge any decisions made at the AGM at NCAT and have then overturned because if he goes ahead on the current basis it will be unlawful.
3. Start proceedings for mediation at Fair Trading so the facts of life can be explained to this idiot. They will do a site visit if need be.
4. Find a strata manager who will go with you to NCAT, and offer them, as well, the chance to present as a viable strata manager and have their contract accepted at the AGM in the event that you don’t have to go for a Section 162.
To answer your questions, the developer can only charge levies according to the unit entitlements and he is not allowed to create debts that the owners corp has to pay (therefore he can’t backdate charges).
Once again, you really need to get some strata professionals on board – whether it’s Fair Trading, a strata manager or a lawyer – so that this idiot doesn’t just keep coming at you with another “cunning plan.”
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
19/12/2016 at 12:39 pm #26024We took this issue up with Innovation and Better Regulation (inc. Fair Trading) Minister Victor Dominello’s office.
You can read the entire response below but the significant point is that any dodgy decisions made by a self-interested developer (or ‘original owner’ to give them their Sunday name) can be challenged and overturned by application to NCAT for Section 232 orders.
So now it’s a question of going to the developer and asking them if they want to do this the easy way (accept defeat and behave) or the hard way (pay legal fees, then accept defeat and behave).
Here’s the latest response from Minister Dominello’s office:
- It appears that the original owner of the strata scheme, during the period prior to the end of the initial period (when at least one third of the unit entitlements have been sold), may be attempting to levy new lot owners for costs, including for unmetered water, associated with the lots that haven’t yet been sold.
[Flat Chat’s] advice to the complainants is essentially correct. Section 83 of the Strata Schemes Management Act 2015 provides that contributions levied by an owners corporation must be levied in respect of each lot and are payable (subject to this section and section 82) by the owners in shares proportional to the unit entitlements of their respective lots. Therefore, lot owners cannot be required to pay for unmetered water.
It also appears that the original owner has engaged the services of a caretaker. The Act is very clear in that any contract that engages a caretaker or strata managing agent can only be enforced until the first annual general meeting, when it expires. It is then the responsibility of the owners’ corporation at that meeting to engage a caretaker or strata managing agent for the strata scheme if it wishes to do so.
Whilst the advice that [Flat Chat] has provided to the complainant relates to the previous Strata Schemes Management Act 1996, the advice is still largely relevant.
However, the complainant should be made aware of the provisions of s.232 of the new Act, and the associated wider powers of the NSW Civil & Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) to be able to address complaints. NCAT has powers to be able to disallow resolutions made at general meeting, remove members of a strata committee, including its officers, and to appoint a strata managing agent, amongst other powers. Lot owners have a right to apply to NCAT to exercise these powers.
Complaints
NSW Fair Trading has received a complaint regarding water charges in this strata scheme.
The complainant was provided with information on the application of strata laws and lodging an application for mediation. If mediation is unsuccessful an application may be lodged with the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
19/12/2016 at 1:45 pm #26026Thank you Jimmy for following this up for us. Having Minister Dominello’s office respond provides us with the ability to show our initial owner/developer that he can’t keep moving costs onto us at will.
we were almost ready to give up and accept that he had such control over the 4 owners in the 14 Unit Strata Scheme so you have made our Christmas a very happy one.
best wishes Jimmy for a lovely Christmas and many thanks once again
20/12/2016 at 12:36 pm #26032Will you keep us posted Faraway Girl – this issue is fascinating (less so for you I can imagine). Would love to know how he reacts when he realises he has to work within set boundaries. I hope you don’t have to take him to the Tribunal.
21/12/2016 at 8:02 pm #26042Will certainly keep everyone informed . We will likely end up at the Tribunal as this developer has never accepted when he is in the wrong. He is having a conflict with the Council regarding another development in town and with a neighbour of a different property. He never gives up. I’ll update you all as it happens.
26/12/2016 at 5:02 pm #26053Well everyone, the plot thickens at our Strata complex in a small coastal area. The latest is that the developer has now advised everyone that I don’t know what I am talking about by advising him ( as per the Ministers Office statement) that the Act prevents him from charging for unmetered water on top of our levy. He is already charging the two newest owners 1/5 of the water account. The most recent event is that one of the newest owners ( 4 out of 14 apartments have now been sold) got stuck in the lift and had to ring her daughter to come and get her out. When she emailed the developer to report this he then emailed all owners and said that the two earliest owners ( us and our upstairs neighbour) had prevented him from having the lift serviced as when he wanted to put the annual levy up 20% we would not agree. He has now banned use of the lift and does not have any lights on in the common areas so we have all had to run out and buy torches so we can use the ( very dark) stairs at night. He is still insisting that he will have the AGM ratify his decision to charge the two earliest owners 1/3 of the water account so it will be back dated.
Now he says he will be implementing a special levy so he can have the lift fixed. He has not ever identified a revenue budget and we do not have a budget at all except a draft that he sent us which said we had to pay over $3000 pa levy as well as water, lift maintenance, electricity , insurance and any other costs not included in budget ( he had no idea what they were). No estimate of these expenses and no revenue ( levies) as he is not charging himself for his 10 units even though they are 73% of lot entitlements.
We may now go to mediation and failing that will need seek the appointment of a Strata Manager as whatever we do he just over rides us and tells the other owners that we do not know anything.
26/12/2016 at 11:28 pm #26054The Minister’s office, the Fair Trading Commissioner and the head of mediation services at Fair Trading have all been alerted.
At the very worst, if Chummy fails to play by the rules and continues his ridiculous, ignorant, bullying behaviour, he should find himself at the wrong end of a number of Section 232 rulings to rescind the decisions of the AGM, repay the money and hand control of the strata scheme to an NCAT-appointed manager.
If any of that doesn’t occur, it will blow a hole in the new strata laws and that will be a whole other story.
2017 is going to be very interesting in your neck of the woods.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
29/12/2016 at 10:50 am #26073A further point and a reminder of how important it is to keep telling people who refuse to listen what they should and shouldn’t be doing.
Firstly, Section 26 of the Act (below) restricts the powers of initial owners (developers) and, significantly, allows the Owners Corporation to recover from any debts that were wrongly incurred before the first AGM. It also allows for damages claims against the initial owner as well as the legal costs incurred in recovering debts and damages.
However, there is a potential get-out clause in Section 26 (4)(a) if the initial owner says they weren’t aware that they were breaching the law. That’s why it’s important to keep writing letters telling them how and why they are in breach and demanding that they communicate in writing with you.
At the very least, I would be pointing out that they:
a. shouldn’t be charging for the water apart from in proportion to levies related to unit entitlements
b. shouldn’t be charging a special levy for lift repairs that surely must come under a warranty and, if not, should be paying the bills himself
c. shouldn’t be issuing contracts that go beyond the first AGM
d. shouldn’t be adjusting levies from the amount agreed at sale. See Section 89 (below) – it gives owners three years in which to claim back additional levies payments incurred because the initial estimates were too low and/or not properly calculated.
By the way, for the purposes of Section 26, until the first AGM the initial owner or developer is considered to be acting as the Owners Corporation.
In this case, I would be writing to the developer (collectively) with a copy of Section 26 below, warning him that unless he starts complying with the law immediately, when the unit owners take over the running of the building at the AGM, you will be seeking repayment of all debts plus damages from loss of amenity (lights and lifts), plus levy overpayments, plus full legal costs incurred in so doing.
26. Restrictions on powers of owners corporation during initial period
(1) An owners corporation for a strata scheme must not, during the initial period, do any of the following things unless the owners corporation is authorised to do so by an order of the Tribunal under this Division:- alter any common property or erect any structure on the common property otherwise than in accordance with a strata development contract,
- incur a debt for an amount that exceeds the amount then available for repayment of the debt from its administrative fund or its capital works fund,
- appoint a strata managing agent or a building manager or other person to assist it in the management or control of use of the common property, or the maintenance or repair of the common property, for a period extending beyond the holding of the first annual general meeting of the owners corporation,
- borrow money or give securities.
(2) An owners corporation may recover from the original owner:
- as a debt, any amount for which the owners corporation is liable because of a contravention of subsection (1) (b), together with the expenses of the owners corporation incurred in recovering that amount, and
- as damages for breach of statutory duty, any loss suffered by the owners corporation as a result of any other contravention of this section.
(3) An owner may recover, as damages for breach of statutory duty, any loss that has been suffered by the owner as a result of a contravention of this section (other than subsection (1) (b)).
(4) It is a defence to an action under this section in debt or for damages if it is proved that the original owner:
- did not know of the contravention on which the action is based, or
- was not in a position to influence the conduct of the owners corporation in relation to the contravention, or
- used due diligence to prevent the contravention.
(5) A remedy available under this section does not affect any other remedy.
89 Order requiring original owner to pay compensation for inadequate estimates and levies
(1) The Tribunal may, on application by the owners corporation for or an owner of a lot in the strata scheme, order the original owner of the strata scheme to pay compensation to the owners corporation if the Tribunal determines that the estimates and levies determined during the initial period for the purposes of determining and meeting expenditures relating to the scheme were inadequate to meet the actual or expected expenditures of the owners corporation.
(2) The Tribunal must not make an order under this section if the original owner satisfies the Tribunal that the original owner used due care and diligence in determining the estimates and levies.
(3) An application under this section must be made not later than 3 years after the end of the initial period.
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
30/12/2016 at 8:09 am #26076This is great information Jimmy. We will sit down now and develop some formal responses to his recent insulting emails and will send to him in hard copy to his mail box. Thank you so much for your support and advice. Have a happy new year and I will keep Flat Chat members updated on this developer’s actions in 2017.
-
AuthorReplies
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Levies and Unit Entitlements › Current Page