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  • #9100
    Aquarian
    Flatchatter

      A minority of owners in our Strata Plan are unhappy with their unit entitlements – claiming they are too high.

      Two years ago a special resolution was put to an AGM to engage a valuer to review values and unit entitlements.  That motion failed to secure the required 75%.

      At the last AGM a general resolution was put on the agenda – in similar terms and was passed.  Our strata manager said it didn’t require a special resolution although the previous year they said it did!

      The valuer’s report has been received.  It is not a valuation at the time the strata plan was registered – is that significant in this process?

      It concludes that the “penthouses” unit entitlements should be reduced by 33% while other lots should increase by between 6% and 24%.

      The OC is going to call an EGM to consider this matter.  We have enquired at Fair Trading and Registrar Generals and both said we need a special resolution about changing the entitlements and then need to apply to the CTTT for orders.

      Our strata manager says we only need an ordinary resolution to lodge an application to the CTTT for orders to vary the unit entitlements.  Some of us do not see how that can be correct (for these orders) given the information we received from Fair Trading and the Registrar General’s Office and the requirements of the LTO for lodging such a change to the Strata Plan.

      Please tell us the facts including what sections of what Act apply.

      Thank you

       

    Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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    • #19861
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Section 183 (below) is the relevant part of the Strata Act and I think your strata manager is right – you only need an ordinary resolution to ask for a ruling (given that any individual owner is entitled to seek an order under this section).

        However, a special resolution would carry a lot of weight with the adjudicator as it would indicate that the vast majority of owners agreed with the proposed changes.

        Section 183 is long and complicated but the key element is to include a valuation by an accredited valuer which indicates that the valuation was unreasonable to begin with, or became unreasonable because of a subsequent re-valuation of the unit entitlements, or became unfair because of a change in circumstances (such as an owner acquiring common property and attaching it to the title of their lot).

        I can’t see why you would need a special reolution for this – there’s nothing about that in the Act – but I have a sneaking feeling that a CTTT Order is not required if there is unanimous agreement of all owners to change the UEs.  Maybe someone with direct experience can enlighten us.

        183   Order for reallocation of unit entitlements

        (1) Tribunal may make order allocating unit entitlements
        The Tribunal may make an order allocating unit entitlements among the lots that are subject to a strata scheme in the manner specified in the order.

        (2) Circumstances in which order may be made
        An order may be made only if the Tribunal considers that the allocation of unit entitlements among the lots:

        (a)  was unreasonable when the strata plan was registered or when a strata plan of subdivision was registered, or

        (a1)  was unreasonable when a revised schedule of unit entitlements was lodged at the conclusion of a development scheme, or

        (b)  became unreasonable because of a change in the permitted land use, being a change (for example, because of a rezoning) in the ways in which the whole or any part of the parcel could lawfully be used, whether with or without development consent.

        (3) Matters to be taken into consideration
        In making a determination under this section, the Tribunal is to have regard to the respective values of the lots and (if a strata development contract is in force in relation to the strata scheme) to such other matters as the Tribunal considers relevant.

        (4) Application to be accompanied by valuation
        An application for an order must be accompanied by a certificate specifying the valuation, at the relevant time of registration or immediately after the change in the permitted land use, of each of the lots to which the application relates.

        (5) Qualifications of person making valuation
        The certificate must have been given by a registered valuer under the Valuers Act 2003 authorised under that Act to make such a valuation (a qualified valuer).

        (6) Ancillary orders that may be made if original valuation unsatisfactory
        The Tribunal may, if it makes an order allocating unit entitlements that were not allocated in accordance with a valuation of a qualified valuer and, in the opinion of the Tribunal, were allocated unreasonably by a developer, also order:

        (a)  the payment by the developer to the applicant for the order of the costs incurred by the applicant, including fees and expenses reasonably incurred in obtaining the valuation and the giving of evidence by a qualified valuer, and

        (b)  the payment by the developer to any or all of the following people of such amounts as may be assessed by the Tribunal to represent any overpayments (due to the unreasonable allocation) for which liability arose not earlier than 6 years before the date of the order:

        the lessor of a leasehold strata scheme

        the owners corporation

        the owners of lots.

        (7) Recovery of amounts awarded
        An amount ordered to be paid under this section may be recovered as a debt.

        (8) Who may make application?
        An application for an order under this section may be made only by:

        (a)  an owner of a lot (whether or not a development lot) within the parcel, or

        (b)  the owners corporation, or

        (c)  the lessor of a leasehold strata scheme, or

        (d)  the local council, or by any other public authority or statutory body representing the Crown, being an authority or body that is empowered to impose a rate, tax or other charge by reference to a valuation of land.

        (9) Lodgment of order
        The owners corporation must ensure that a copy of an order made by the Tribunal under this section is lodged in the Registrar-General’s office no more than 2 years after the order is made.

        Note. Section 209 contains provisions with respect to the lodgment of an order made under this section.

        (10)  Nothing in this section prevents a person referred to in subsection (8) from lodging a copy of an order made under this section.

         

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #19865
        Whale
        Flatchatter

          Aquarian – I think we may be at cross purposes here, in that there are two (2) scenarios where a change may be made to the schedule of unit entitlements in the situation that you describe, and where both require in the first instance a general resolution (i.e. passed by a simple majority) of Owners at a General Meeting to engage the services of a Registered Valuer to review those.

          The first can occur at any time within two (2) years of a Plan being Registered, where under the provisions of the NSW Strata Schemes (Freehold) Development Act (1973) the passing of a Special Resolution is all that’s necessary for an application to then be made directly to NSW Land & Property Information to change a Plan’s Schedule of Unit Entitlements.

          The second can occur at any time after the two (2) year period (above) where then (i.e. after the Valuer’s review) on the basis of either a general resolution (simply majority) passed at a General Meeting or a grievance by the minority of Owners to which your post refers if that resolution didn’t pass, an application can be made to the Strata Division of the NSW Consumer, Trader, and Tenancy Tribunal (CTTT) under Sect 183 of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) for Orders to reallocate Units of Entitlement under the process described by Jimmy.

          Hopefully that answers your question about the nature of the Resolution required; special up to two (2) years from Registration and simple thereafter.

          If only your Owners Corporation had passed a general resolution to engage the Valuer when it first met two (2) years ago, it would have complied with the first scenario that I outlined and could have avoided the CTTT altogether.

          Finally with regard to Sect 183(4), it’s likely one of those quirks that the CTTT thrives upon, but I think it’s referring to the original valuation that was produced when the Plan was Registered, so the Member can compare that with the one now done to support the requested reallocation. 

          #19866
          scotlandx
          Strataguru

            We recently had an owner who raised this issue, as they felt that the allocation was unfair.  I went away and did some calculations and was surprised to find that although at first glance they did look a bit out of whack, the entitlements were surprisingly fair, based on the value of the lots.  It is often the case that owners will claim that the allocations are unfair, but when you work it out by percentage of the total pool it isn’t.

            I’m curious as to why the minority of owners believe the allocation is unfair, what were the reasons they gave?

            Like Jimmy I thought that you could reallocate unit entitlements if the owners unanimously agreed, but it seems that isn’t the case in NSW (other States provide for this).  So if you have to apply for an order, there are some key things:

            – the principal consideration is value of lots, as distinct from size, or views or whatever else (as those other elements will go to the value anyway)

            – you have to satisfy the CTTT that the entitlements were unreasonable at the time of allocation, and this has to be supported by a valuation of the lots at the time of registration

            Note that valuation now is not relevant, unless you fall into 2(a1) or 2(b), which is unusual.

            – the valuation and application process is expensive.

            Unless the OC is pretty certain that the entitlements were unreasonable at the time of allocation, then they should ask themselves why they are making the application.

            (unless of course there was a subsequent subdivision or changed use of land etc.)

            #19868
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              We did have some correspondence recently from a woman who was being defaulted on her levies because she refused to pay one-twelfth of the total budget of her 12-unit block, seeing as she was on the ground floor at the back and the chairman was paying the same for the top floor at the front.

              However, this building did have Unit Entitlements properly calculated at inception – it was just that the chairman was too lazy/greedy/stupid to work them out properly.

              UEs can never be an exact match to property values (they fluctuate too much) but there definitely is a very close correlation.

              And let’s not forget that in Queensland they split the UEs into one fund based on the share of the insurable value of the property and they other on the usage of common property.  

              And, yes, they got themselves into a right mess there which I think they are just sorting out now.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #19869
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                @scotlandx said:

                Unless the OC is pretty certain that the entitlements were unreasonable at the time of allocation, then they should ask themselves why they are making the application.

                 

                I guess one good reason would be if the developer had set the UEs themselves and skewed the figures for the larger units or commercial properties to either benefit themselves (or mates) or to make them more attractive to purchasers.  That’s when this delicious clause kicks in, meaning the developer has to pay back any over-payments plus the cost of making the application: 

                183   Order for reallocation of unit entitlements

                (6) Ancillary orders that may be made if original valuation unsatisfactory

                The Tribunal may, if it makes an order allocating unit entitlements that were not allocated in accordance with a valuation of a qualified valuer and, in the opinion of the Tribunal, were allocated unreasonably by a developer, also order:

                (a)  the payment by the developer to the applicant for the order of the costs incurred by the applicant, including fees and expenses reasonably incurred in obtaining the valuation and the giving of evidence by a qualified valuer, and

                (b)  the payment by the developer to any or all of the following people of such amounts as may be assessed by the Tribunal to represent any overpayments (due to the unreasonable allocation) for which liability arose not earlier than 6 years before the date of the order:

                the lessor of a leasehold strata scheme

                the owners corporation

                the owners of lots.

                (7) Recovery of amounts awarded
                An amount ordered to be paid under this section may be recovered as a debt.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #19870
                scotlandx
                Strataguru

                  Yes – in the example you give Jimmy, that is an example of the allocation being unreasonable at the outset.

                  There are examples of blatant skewing of entitlements, but Aquarian didn’t go into the details of why the minority believe they are unfair. 

                  As I said, it is often the case that people think they are unfair, but they’re not.  That is why you need to be pretty certain that the original allocation was unreasonable, otherwise you are wasting money in making the application.

                  Our strata manager told us of a scheme he runs where the penthouse which was about triple the size of a ground floor unit had an entitlement of 30, versus 90 for the ground floor unit.  Now that is unreasonable.

                  #19871
                  Kangaroo
                  Flatchatter

                    Scotty,

                    Yes, that would seem unreasonable.

                    But what if there is no copy of the valuation of the lots at the time of registration, because the scheme is older than that requirement, or a chain of SMs have “lost” bits and pieces over time?

                    As you say, there would seem to be no way to reallocate UEs, even if the OC passed a special resolution or even a unanimous resolution.

                    How do you fix the problem? There’s another Curly Q for the Minister.

                    #19872
                    Aquarian
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Thank you everyone for your comments thus far – you are helping make this complex matter a bit clearer.

                      To give some background facts:

                      1. there are 14 lots in the block 4 on each of the first three levels and two on the upper level – called penthouses (some say sub penthouses because there are two there.

                      2. the original / current unit entitlements were set by the (we think) the developer.

                      3. the four lots on the lowest level have unit entitlements of 11; the four on the next level up have UE of 12; the four on the third level have UE of 13 and the two on the top level have UE of 14. Unit entitlements total 200

                      4. many of the lots in this strata plan were sold off the plan.  Some of them (5 lots) were ultimately sold to people who had “invested” in the development and or were shareholders in the development – hence the sale prices in those cases are not “arms length”.

                      5. the builder went into administration / liquidation just as the building was being finished.

                      6. We have had home owners warranty claims in the building over a number years and have exhausted that insurance.  Owners will need to contribute to significant special levies to fund the balance of the cost of defect repairs.

                      7. A representative of the developer told me around the time of settlement that the UE were originally intended to be 11; 12; 13 and 14; as you went higher in the building (and the values / selling prices got higher) however Council wouldn’t allow four units on the top floor (something to do with occupancy numbers) so as the two penthouses UE’s were doubled.

                      8. The owners of the two sub penthouses (the minority I mentioned) are complaining that the UE’s are inequitable (especially now that we face significant special levies to repair the building).

                      8. We have had a valuation report done however it is dated 13 August 2013 and makes no reference to values at the time the strata plan was regisitered.

                      9. It does conclude that the penthouse UE’s should be reduced by 33% while lower lots should increase from 7% to 24%.

                      10. As I commented above (at point 4) we don’t know all the values at the time the strata plan was registered (and some were not “arms length” transactions however based on what we do know about purchase prices at the time of registration of the strata plan most owners (while recognising that there is most likely some inequity) do not believe the valuation report we have received has  got it right.

                      I hope this assists in further helpful comments being made about this issue for our benefit and also others strata dwellers who have similar issues to tackle.

                      Thanks again everyone for your comments thus far.

                       

                       

                      #19883
                      scotlandx
                      Strataguru

                        Thanks Aquarian, that fills in a few gaps.  So the scheme is relatively recent.  It is true that valuations based on purchase price may not be accurate, given that some of the transactions may not have been at arms length.  But it would not be difficult for a qualified independent valuer to do a proper valuation of the lots at the time the scheme was registered.

                        Re Kangaroo’s question – how do you work out the value (at the time of registration)?  That is what a valuer does.  If you look at the unit entitlements cases, there are lots of examples of valuations being given for schemes built a long time ago.  Bear in mind that the Land Titles Office records the prices paid for properties when they change hands, if you want to you can find out what any property sold for, by doing a search. 

                        “Value” is an elastic concept, and you can have both a subjective and objective valuation.  So just because someone buys something for certain price, that doesn’t mean that will the value ascribed to it by a valuer.  Refer this from one case:

                        The values of the lots are to be determined by a valuer. The High Court in Spencer v the Commonwealth [1907] HCA 82; (1907) 5 CLR 418, defined how to arrive at the valued – that is the “willing but not anxious vendor and purchaser”. In many cases to ascertain this it is necessary to obtain evidence of prices in surrounding properties at or near the relevant time….

                        So a report giving the value of the properties now isn’t going to assist, and from what Aquarian has said, it sounds like the valuer hasn’t even given a basis for his/her conclusions.  What you need to do is engage an independent valuer and instruct them to provide a valuation of the lots at the time of registration.  The reason I keep saying independent is because I get the feeling that the current valuer is not independent, but I could be wrong.  At the extreme, the owners of the penthouses may find that the entitlements should be readjusted in a way that is not in their favour.

                        Here are some cases to give you a feel re the CTTT approach.

                         

                        https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCTTT/2008/769.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=%22unit%20entitlement%20%22

                         

                        https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCTTT/2011/28.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=%22unit%20entitlement%20%22

                         

                        https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCTTT/2012/233.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=%22unit%20entitlement%20%22

                         

                         

                         

                        #19885

                        It is not uncommon for owners to disagree about what allocation of UE’s would be equitable. After all for every winner there are usually many more losers who end up paying a greater percentage of levies.

                        This is why s.183(8)a) allows an individual owner to make an application to change the UE’s. You can be assured that an ageived owner will only pay for the expenses to go through the process if they are sure that the UE’s really are significantly unfair.

                        Aquarian – I suggest that you SM engaged a valuer who had no idea of the process for changing UE’s or your SM did not explain the purpose of the valuation (or the OC agreed on a cheap quote from someone not experienced in these matters). An application will get nowhere unless the valuation is specifically fit for purpose. Whether it is an OC making the application or an individual the key is to use a valuer who is experienced in these matters. In my experience both Value 8 & Building Insurance Valuations are very knowledgable in UE disputes. I am sure there are others equally good.

                        As for the independence of a valuer surely the only way someone will be independent is if they were appointed by a court or adjudicator? (IMO)

                        #19889
                        Kangaroo
                        Flatchatter

                          Thanks Scotty.

                          I knew there were different types of current valuations, e.g. for insurance (rebuilding) or for market sale, but I didn’t realise you could get an historic valuation.

                          @Aquarian said:
                          3. the four lots on the lowest level have unit entitlements of 11; the four on the next level up have UE of 12; the four on the third level have UE of 13 and the two on the top level have UE of 14. Unit entitlements total 200

                           

                          I think he meant the top level (penthouses) currently have a UE of 28 each, which came about as explained in point (7), otherwise the total wouldn’t be 200.

                          So the question is, is each penthouse twice the floor space of a lower unit, or did the building end up as some sort of stepped pyramid?

                          Floor space has to be a significant contributor to the “value” for UE purposes, perhaps the major contributor.

                          I’m not trying to do the valuer’s job here, but knowing this information might help Aquarian evaluate whether an application for a reallocation of UEs is worth pursuing.

                          #19892
                          scotlandx
                          Strataguru

                            Yes I was confused about that, I couldn’t figure out how the two penthouses could be 14.  But if they are twice the size and at the top, it may be that the allocation is not that far out.  Size does go to valuation, as do aspect, location, approved use etc.

                            The reason I was banging on about independence is because there have been a number of cases where individual applicants have got valuers to put in what you would call self-serving reports, and these have been knocked back.  JGOWI is right, you need someone who is experienced in this area, but if the valuer is appointed by the OC and acts for the OC, then they have to be objective, because they are acting for all the owners. 

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