Flat Chat Strata Forum Neighbour noise Current Page

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  • #9559

    Hi,

    Earlier this year the new owners of the apartment above began renovations. This went for at least 5 weeks and were incredibly loud, but as we are polite we did not raise any concerns. 

    However, as the renovations began to quieten, we realised that we could now hear daily noises – footsteps, doors closing, mobile phone alarms vibrating and people urinating. We discovered that the owners had removed the carpet and installed floorboards. These noises were frequent and unavoidable – even turning the television up did not always drown out the noises. We contacted strata regarding both these daily noises, as well as hammering and drilling after 8pm. Strata sent a letter regarding this and a member of the executive committee also visited the owners to enquire about their insulation – they admitted to it being only 2mm and promised they would put down rugs.

    Our strata by-laws state “An owner of a lot must ensure that all floor space within the lot is covered or treated to an extent sufficient to prevent any degradation of acoustic performance and the transmission from the floor space of noise likely to disturb the peaceful enjoyment of the owner or occupier of another lot” (14.1)”. The noises that we are now exposed to are new and we did not hear similar noises prior to the renovations, which I feel clearly demonstrates there has been in a degradation in sound transfer.We understand that there is a degree of noise associated with apartment living, but the changes have been significant.

    I have spoken with the owners twice – the first time, they denied that they were making any noises (despite me politely explaining we could hear their daily lives). It was only when I pointed out to them that their alarm had gone off at 6.30am, 6.40am and 6.50am the previous morning (a Saturday, no less) that they admitted that perhaps we could hear some things. They then blamed it on the old building and when I raised the idea that their insulation was insufficient, they denied this. 

    Later that week a flooring certificate was provided, however, I was informed by another source that the insulation was insufficient when there are residents living below (12mm laminate floorboard and 2mm foamlay underlay.) 

    Strata agreed to send another letter, but suggested that immediately moving to mediation would be more beneficial than issuing a ‘notice to comply’.

    Last night I was privy to the repetitive creaking issuing from the bedroom above… I spoke with the female owner today who first denied being home at that time (I did not immediately disclose what I had heard) but she then changed her story. First she said she had heard the same sounds, but it was from another apartment, then she said she had heard the sounds coming from the outside wall. I tried to keep the issue to the insufficient insulation and said that it was for both our benefits – surely she does not want us hearing their private noises? She agreed but said that she had put rugs down in the lounge and hall and that it was our fault that we were too sensitive. For every rational point I put forward, she simply blamed us. 

    I don’t agree that rugs are a sufficient solution. Firstly, they have supposedly put them down already and the noise levels have not decreased. Also, this is a temporary solution and I do not want to be in a position where the apartment is sold and then we have to deal with the same issue with new owners. (Plus, if we can hear this much from two adults, I worry about if a family with young children move in).

    I would love some advice for where to go from here. At this stage, I think my best option is to hire a strata lawyer and take this to adjudication. I have been keeping track of the noises (types, dates and times) but this only extends back to the beginning of May. I have read up on different cases on this site and I am very concerned about the costs that I may be facing. However, these ongoing noises are causing stress and I feel as if my home is no longer a place of relaxation. 

    Thank you in advance for any advice that you might have.

    Edit – we thought that after speaking with the owner we would get at least one night of peace. But nope, hammering on and off for approx. an hour (starting just after 7pm). We didn’t go see them because now we are worried they will claim we are harassing them. 

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  • #21793
    Jimmy-T
    Keymaster

      Your upstairs neighbours are in clear violation of your scheme’s by-laws.  You are right to want to talk to a specialist strata lawyer about this as your neighbours seem happy to dissemble and obfuscate to keep their precious floor boards. Judging by others’ experiences, this will probably get nastier before it is resolved so hang in there and remember these points:

      1.  They are in the wrong, not you.

      2.  They have lied and will probably do so again to collect as much evidence as you can.

      3. They have enhanced the value of their property at the expense of yours.

      4. If they have to rip up the floorboards or relay carpet and insulation, it’s their fault, not yours.

      5. A Tribunal will probably only order them to fix the problem – it may not instruct them on how to do that.  However, the fact remains that there is no better insulation than carpet on top of quality underlay, so be prepared for a couple of visits to NCAT before the idiots upstairs finally get the message. 

      6.  Don’t be afraid to explain to them that they can do this the easy way – fix it properly now – or the hard way: spend thousands of dollars on lawyers and end up having to fix it properly anyway.  Either way, they should start planning on how they are going to remedy a problem they have caused. 

      THE CTTT used to be notoriously lax on the floorboards issue, with Members who had apparently never set foot in an apartment – let alone lived in one – blithely ruling that noise was a part of apartment living.  You don’t hear that so much these days.  Your scheme has a very good by-law that has been breached and that is all that they should be interested in.

      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
      #21827

      JimmyT – thank you so much for your reply. This issue has caused me a lot of stress over the past few months – I am a first home buyer and naively I thought people would follow strata laws and do the right thing… Silly me. I will be contacting a lawyer today regarding these matters. 

      I also wanted to find out – clearly 2mm of insulation is clearly insufficient underneath floorboards – what would normally be considered adequate? Is there any clear guidelines about this? (I will push for carpet and underlay, but I want to ensure that I have all the information.)

      Thank you.

      #21829
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        @McVities said:
        I also wanted to find out – clearly 2mm of insulation is clearly insufficient underneath floorboards – what would normally be considered adequate? Is there any clear guidelines about this? (I will push for carpet and underlay, but I want to ensure that I have all the information.)

        Our by-laws specify at least 11mm of quality insulation but I’m not really in favour of being that prescriptive since another imponderable is the thickness, density and sound transmission qualities of the actual slab.

        If I were drafting a by-law, it would say that any changes to the flooring should not permit any increased transmission of noise (but I would then attach a guide to how that could be achieved in an average unit in that building).

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #22466

        Really sorry to hear about all the trouble that you’ve had to go through with this. It seems like it gets more and more difficult fr us to be trusting when there are people in the world like this who just insist on making things difficult. Well I say, put manners and polite exchanges into storage and fight for what you deserve. @JimmyT is right in saying that they are in the wrong and you should really start looking to seek some proper redress for the problems before it gets worse – or as you say, a family with kids starts moving in…

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