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  • #8827
    struggler
    Flatchatter

      I seem to recall reading that an EC had to give notice if any chemicals were to be used in the complex.  Is that correct?  And if so, how much notice do they need to give?  Cheers

    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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    • #18457
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        I can’t recall any specific regulation about this but there is a Safe Work Australia code of conduct that says anyone using hazardous chemicals in a workplace has to check with the manufacturer about correct safety procedures. This will legally apply to some  strata plans but not all of them.

        Beyond that, the owners corporation has a duty of care to residents that would generally apply to the use of chemicals and the same safety measures would make good sense and may well be applicable legally.

        You can find the workplace safety code of conduct HERE.

         

         

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #18459
        scotlandx
        Strataguru

          Yes you do, at least for pest treatments.  Five days notice is required, refer here:

          https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/pesticides/07225multioccupancy.pdf

          Not sure re other types of chemicals, but I would err on the side of caution, as Jimmy says, there is general duty of care.

          #18461
          struggler
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter

            Thanks for your replies.

            I can home from an interstate trip to find a pool of water in the foyer of my townhouse coming from  under my front door as well as a chemical smell.  There was also a water logged note from an EC member saying workmen would commence cleaning – tomorrow.  As I was in my home the day before, I can safely deduce that the note was left in the evening, so 12 hours notice.  Note instructed residents to allow access, move furniture, dont put any washing out.  All very well for the EC who must have known when these workmen were going to appear.  

            I then arrive home from another work trip to find a note plastered on my flyscreen door at eye level.  It says that because I didnt let them in last time they would be coming back – tomorrow!  Make sure you give them access and if you cant be home make sure someone else is there!  So I am assuming that tomorrow refers to the day after I left on my trip.  There was no notice the day before I left.  Don’t know about anyone else out there but a bit hard to organise someone to be at your place on short notice.

            These workmen that they want me to allow access to my courtyard area are the same ones who used the chemicals and flooded my foyer (twice).  I do not want chemicals used.  Since this cleaning work was carried out the plants in the common area next to areas cleaned have died.  I do not want my garden killed off and am concerned about the health of the plants I have at my front door.  Can I hold the EC members accountable if they die because of lack of notice regarding both the cleaning and the use of chemicals?

             Can I hold the EC accountable because my vacuum cleaner was sitting in my foyer in the water?  If they had given adequate notice, it wouldnt have been there and I could have placed something under my door to stop any water.

            #18463
            Whale
            Flatchatter

              Struggs, it sounds to me like the note that you were given doesn’t meet the requirements of the “Notice” that’s required to be given under the NSW Pesticides Regulation 2009 (see link in Scotty’s post #3), and that alone could lead to a max $44,000 fine against the Owners Corporation!

              However as your post mentions that the contractors were “cleaning” (common property?) it’s unlikely that activity would be covered by the Regulation but it’s indeed possible for caustic cleaning products to adversely affect plants.

              I’m not sure about holding your Executive Committee (E/C) responsible for giving inadequate notice; after all what’s adequate notice in these possibly un-regulated circumstances?

              However your E/C and/or the Strata Manager (S/M) is responsible for ensuring that the cleaning contractors were properly insured (e.g. public liability), so firstly approach them (E/C and/or S/M) in order to inform them of the damage and to ascertain the details of insurance coverage.

              The activities of the contractors resulted in the water ingress to your townhouse and the subsequent damage to your property (photos?), so in my opinion the chain of liability goes to the contractors in the first instance, to their insurers if they have one, and to the E/C and/or the S/M if they didn’t engage the services of a properly licensed (?) and insured contractor.

              Secondly, I’d get in touch the contractors as they’ve requested to in the first instance ascertain what chemicals they’ve used, secondly to inform them of the damage that their past activities have caused, and lastly to obtain some assurances about how they’ll ensure that no further damage occurs if you allow them access to your courtyard.

              #18509
              struggler
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                I arrived at my home at 11pm last night to find two letters in my mailbox from the Strata Manager.  These are ontop of two notes left on my front door from a committee member.

                Strata Manager letter states that cleaning of the rear area of my townhouse would take place this morning.  The letter was dated the 15th May.  I received it on the 17th. It advises me that if I am not home or do not make arrangements for access to my courtyard through my home then my townhouse will not be painted and I will have the responsibility of ongoing maintenance!

                Of the two notes from the committee member, one states that they made a mistake when they told everyone they had to be home last Saturday, and it was infact this Saturday.  This note was left late on Thursday.  These following from the original note left the night before saying cleaning would commence and we had to make way for these works.

                On all occasions I have been interstate or at work.  This I could not have changed at the last moment.  Topped with the fact that I have an elderly parent that I am co carer for who has been hospitalised for the past 3 weeks and who now needs even more watching over.  It’s not like I am just sitting in a deckchair in my courtyard drinking margaritas and just not wanting to be disturbed.  I have not been here, either working or caring.  

                The other note says that painting will be taking place and residents have to either be at home or give the painter a set of keys.  All very well, but when is the work going to start?  There are no dates, no indication of when.  So how does one stay home to allow painter in when you don’t know what day, or what week he will be appearing.

                So, where do I stand?  The SM seems to be as useless as the EC.  I actually have more ability to be at home and allow access than anyone else here.  My work days and hours are flexible.  I just need to know when I need to be around.  Is that too much to ask?

                And it appears that the cleaners use bleach to clean the place.  I gather this from the overwhelming smell in my home and the many dead plants along the walls that have been washed.  It would appear that no covers where used on the garden areas.  So now we have clean walls and dead and dying garden beds.

                So can I be refused the painting of my townhouse?  A couple of years ago it was discussed and agreed at an AGM that the owners of the townhouses on my side be responsible for the cleaning of the eaves in their townhouses due to the accessibility and the fact that they are only one story on that side and quite small, easily cleaned with a broom and bucket.  Which is what happened with previous cleaning and what I intend to do this time.  

                And when the quote for painting was agreed to 12 months ago, it seems a bit rich to expect residents to be at home at the drop of a hat.  There has been no indication that any works were to begin. So if another resident is on holidays, they miss out on getting their place painted because the EC/SM did not advise that such major maintenance would finally begin.  How were we meant to know if we were not told after all this time?  Perhaps I should have tried a clairvoyant.

                Sorry to go on, and on, about my own issues again, but I really need some guidance.  I intend to call a lawyer on Monday morning.

                #18510
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  Struggler,

                  You have to assume that you are not alone in this and with that in mind, it may be time to get rid of your Executive Committee and strata manager and, if the owners won’t vote them out, apply to have a Strata Manager appointed by the CTTT, especially since you have reported in the past about the lack of any desire to get involved by other owners.  

                  I deliberately chose not to use the word ‘apathy’ because that implies people don’t care.  In your case, as in so many others, owners do care but not enough to get involved in doing any work themselves.

                  So I would be sending round a letter to all owners informing them that the poor management of your strata scheme is costing them time and money.  The bleach killing the plants is just the most obvious example.

                  In your letter, you should point out how easy it is to organise these things – if you have the will or basic nouse to do so.

                  For instance, in the case of the painting, at the EC’s request an efficient strata manager would have worked out how long it was going to take to paint each unit and then given owners a phone number to book their times on a first come, first served basis. Someone in their office would have a grid and all the names and phone numbers of owners would be slotted in to vacant time slots.  

                  Owners who called but couldn’t make any of the available time slots  would be given the opportunity to organise another time slot on a catch-up day. Owners who didn’t call would be told they would have x days in which to organise a time at their convenience but there would be a special call-out fee to bring the painters back to the complex.

                  This is not rocket science and it’s a system that’s used in strata plans all over Australia every day.

                  Why, you should ask your owners, should you have to put up with third-rate service which is a false economy because the EC is incapable of doing the most basic tasks and the strata manager is no help.  It is time for the owners to clear out the EC and take control themselves.  Failing that, you will be applting to the CTTT for the statutory appointment of a strata manager

                  I would also inform them that Statutory Strata Managers are notoriously strict in their implementation of the law – they won’t cut corners and they will charge top dollar.  Even so that is better for the building than a culture of saying nothing and doing less.

                  You could try to organise a meeting of like-minded individuals but you should be prepared to follow through on any threats to go to the CTTT iof you make them.

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #18511
                  struggler
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Thank you Jimmy so much for your reply.  

                    I don’t feel like some irrational strata fool now.  Your answer has justified my ideas on how this should be done. Not just here, for me or my complex, but for anyone living in strata.  

                    Following the letter from the SM saying that my townhouse would not be painted because I have not been home, I went out and examined the woodwork in question at the rear of my townhouse.  It is the eaves measuring approx 7m x 50cm.  No mould.  No moss.  A few cobwebs, which I swept away with a broom and a few dirty raindrop marks, which I also swept away with some soap and water and a broom.  No need for toxic chemicals. The painter should sand lightly before painting.  Have done alot of painting myself.  Have never used bleach.  Elbow grease yes.  Gerni at times.  But not bleach.

                    Then I look around the corner.  Being an end townhouse I have eaves alongside me as well.  These are accessible via common property gardens.  And guess what?  The fly by night operators haven’t cleaned these eaves.  Been back three times that I know of and still havent done this easily accessible dont need to ask anyone area.  So I dont get mine painted because I wasnt home, but the painter cant do these eaves because they are filthy.

                    But if i report these eaves to the ever so clever and knowing SM, they probably will send out the same buffoons who were supposed to do the work.  Then I will have bleach drippiing down my windows, walls.  And the smell will permeate my home again (could smell the bleach from neighbouring properties).  Not to mention the established plants in the common property garden that I look over that will be burnt and possiblily die from the bleach.  So what do I do?  I am dealing with morons here.  

                    I have the phone number of the painter. He has done work here before. I have already contacted him about dates and times and he is happy to work with what days suit me.  He knows the exact  dates he is going to be starting work in the complex.  But the other owners are none the wiser.  The EC did not even give his number out.  And nothing from the SM. There is no correspondence indicating when the painting will start except to say in a couple of weeks.  The EC wants residents to return a notice indicating whether they will be home or not.  But with no dates, times.  So how can you say you will be home.  It is seriously farcical.

                    The only common sense in my strata world is on this forum.  So thanks again Jimmy for making me believe it is worth fighting the good fight. 

                     

                    #18517
                    struggler
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Found a large empty container of pool chlorine left in our garbage bins. This is apparently what was use to clean our complex.  The cheapest way to do it.  Why am I not surprised?  Just look at the cost, no matter what the cost.  Will cost more than the cleaning bill to replace the plants that are dying.  Not to mention any other environmental damage caused by these chemicals left to run off.

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