Flat Chat Strata Forum Rental rants Current Page

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #7517
    Get It Right
    Flatchatter

      I have read various opinions on whether holiday & short-term rentals are legal or illegal. Without taking sides, I would like a difinitive answer.

      It appears that the majority of fellow users on this forum believe that holiday & short-term rentals can be prevented by passing of a by-law that specifically bans holiday & short-term rentals. However, I am convinced that this is incorrect as I've got legal advice to the contrary as follows:

      “A by-law that prohibits or restricts leasing in a manner that is permitted under the applicable planning law (LEP) contravenes Section 49 of the Strata Schemes Management Act 1996.

      As long as the zoning of the building does not expressly forbid holiday & short-term rentals, and the renters abide by the usual strata by-laws regarding the noise, etc… the owners engaged in holiday rentals are not breaking the law. Passing a by-law to that effect could be challenged as contravening Section 49 and is therefore a useless and potentially costly tool.

      Even if the zoning of the building was to change by council’s amendments to LEP and the by-law was incompliance with the amended LEP, the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979, which overrides (LEP), gives rights for existing use to continue despite the amendment.”

      Would anyone offer an alternative interpretation?

    Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #13334
      Get It Right
      Flatchatter
      Chat-starter

        Update: this is the response I received from Teys Lawyers who contribute regularly to this site:

         

        “Simone from our office passed your enquiry to me.

         

        To answer your question, a by-law to prohibit short-term letting (or
        holiday rentals) is prohibited under NSW strata legislation.

         

        It seems the use of these by-law is prevalent all throughout NSW, with most owners corporations and executive committees passing them in the hope that no legal challenge is mounted to question their validity, to 'call their bluff'.

         

        Our firm routinely acts for owners to strike down these by-laws, and we
        have a 100% success rate in this area. Please let us know if we can assist you further?

         

        Kind regards,

        Tom

         


        Tom Bacon
        Senior
        Lawyer


        TEYS Lawyers
        The Strata Law Experts
        02 9562 6500
        Suite 73, Lower Deck
        Jones Bay Wharf
        26-32 Pirrama Rd
        Pyrmont NSW 2009″
        #13339

        Ok Teys so what is the solution for an OC??

        It would be very easy to establish the exact negative impact on the remainder of the building.

        Why do the rest of the owners have to be burdened by this??

        What is the negative impact on the value of adjacent units?? Can owners take legal action against those owners doing the short term letting for the loss in their apartment value??

        How does the OC recover the additional maintenance costs due to the impact on common property, higher than normal water consumption etc etc etc.

        Residential apartment buildings are not Hotels and typically owners in residential strata buildings are not prepared to pay what would be the outgoings on such a building.

        How about being the answer rather than creating a bigger problem??

        #13340
        Get It Right
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Hello Mr Strata,

          I believe the solution is for OC is to accept the legality of holiday
          rentals and to harmoniously embrace them as part of living in a strata building as opposed to own free-standing house.

          I disagree that it is very easy to establish a negative impact on the
          remainder of the building. In our building there is one owner who is half deaf and watches TV very loudly, another owner who has a dog, another owner who feeds pigeons who often poop around the building, and yet another owner who is always doing the laundry and uses the common laundry area more than anyone else.

          Compare this to the quiet habitation of an elderly couple who have come from UK for two weeks to visit their son and daughter-in-law and their newborn grandson. How does one determine which of these neighbours has more negative impact than the other? How can one determine extra maintenance or water costs? One simply can't.

          The negative impact that you fear maybe produced by a hostel or backpacker accommodation, but owners of holiday rentals are usually very careful whom they allow into their renovated and well-furnished apartments, because they do not want any damage to their expensive furnishings or complaints from their neighbours. They are usually active on EC and get involved in looking after the building, much more than the absentee landlords, who are only interested in collecting rent via real
          estate agents.

          It is also questionable whether one would want to live next to an owner or a tenant who was a complete nuisance, but, due to the nature of their long-term tenancy, would have to put up with it indefinitely. At least with the temporary nature of holiday rentals, a bad neighbour will go away after a while.

          The advice provided was on the legality of holiday rentals, not on whether it was a good idea, so thank you TEYS lawyers.

          #13343
          AdrianAce
          Flatchatter

            There is no definitive answer because the answer depends on the council zoning for your building. If holiday letting is legal in the zoning for your building there is not much you can do to stop it. However if the zoning prohibits or requires consent for holiday lettings then you can do something about the problem by passing an appropriately worded bylaw and enforcing the bylaw. Other options include complaining to the council who might do something or going to the Land and Environment Court to enforce the zoning. Several years ago Surherland Council took some owners to the Land and Environment Court and got orders to stop them from using their unit for holiday letting.

            #13344
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              I have to agree with Get It Right. Much as I hate the way corporatised short -term lets have destroyed some residential buildings, the problem is with the law, not with the lawyers.  Sensible strata laws and councils who gave a tuppeny damn about strata residents would sort this problem out overnight. In fact, 80 percent of these issues would be fixed by proper zoning of apartment blocks … and there would still be room for short-term lets.  The big problem is is the holiday rental agencies that want all the facilities and security of residential buildings but do nothing to protect the amenity that enhances the value and desirability of their properties.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #13351

              Yes, it’s understood that the council’s lep, dcp or even the particular development consent for the building may actually be the mechanism to limit short term/holiday letting.

              I believe Get It Right may not have experienced holiday rentals in any of the beach suburbs and or when it has gone seriously wrong.. Imagine coming home from a hard day at work to find your foyer, stairs or lift coated in beach sand, be kept up all night with partying groups, wake up to go to work and the foyer has been redecorated with vomit, beer/wine bottles, general rubbish left at the front door including those prawn heads… And what can the OC/Strata Manager do about this? Very little because the “tenants” change each couple of days or at most couple of weeks. Sure you can write to the “tenants”, owner and council, but to what effect?

              It would be good to do the comparison of with/without holiday letting in a building… I know of two very similar buildings where there is holiday letting occurring in one and not in the other… There is a noticeable difference in the maintenance costs for the cleaning of CP, call outs for the lifts, repairs to the common areas and much more… And who picks up this tab?? All owners in the building are paying for this one owners privilege…Is this how it should work?

              #13353

              Council zoning sets out if the apartments can be leased short term or as residential tenancies.. Sydney City Council is now very clear on this.. Serviced apartments – NO RESIDENTIAL LEASES OR OWNER OCCUPIERS.. RESIDENTIAL- No Serviced apartments or stays less than 3 months on residential tenancies..

               

              Google Sydney City Council Vs The Oaks Group

               

              L&E court Orders shut down Oaks running serviced apartments in two Sydney City office buildings..

               

              This is now getting enforced.. Also getting enforced as they move towards kicking owner occupiers out of serviced apartments..

               

              unfortunately it is the satelite style serviced apartment operations who cause more trouble and are harder to police in comparison to large and reputable operators..

              #13355
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                realtor said:

                This is now getting enforced.. Also getting enforced as they move towards kicking owner occupiers out of serviced apartments..

                Just to reinforce that point, a huge tower block in the city was never meant to be residential – it was always zoned as short-term lets.  Now new management has moved in and is apparently kicking long-term residents out (one might assume, at least in part, to boost their letting business) with council backing. We can't have it both ways.  

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #13358
                struggler
                Flatchatter

                  Though I have never been affected myself, I have seen what some of these short term rentals have done to friends of mine.  They have a number of people next door to them as well as an entire block of apartments (all owned by the one person) with a continuous turn over of residents behind them.

                  Complaints about their behaviour have lead to a barrage of beer bottles and obscene language over the fence.  Confronting their immediate neighbour lead to their car being parked in.  What do they do?  They can (and have) make complaints, but by the time anything is done, these short term residents will probably be heading off in their VW combi which they will leave at the airport whilst going to destinations unknown (with no forwarding address).  Then the next lot will move in. 

                  My friends feel trapped.  Their lives a misery.  They are afraid of further more serious retribution. They would like to sell up and move but can't afford it.  Besides, who would want to live in these conditions? 

                  #13361
                  Get It Right
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Mr Strata said:

                    I believe Get It Right may not have experienced holiday rentals in any of the beach suburbs and or when it has gone seriously wrong..

                    The crux of the matter here is what kind of tenants are allowed to stay by the holiday rental owner. The “seriously wrong” scenario described above seems more consistent with a hostel or backpacker accommodation and brings up images of schoolies week or backpacker christmas celebrations.

                    It is important to separate fear from reality. There is a risk of inconsiderate and negative behaviour from any tenant. Whether this risk is increased by holiday rentals depends on the individual owners and their care factor. Most owners screen for mature and respectful tenants, whether for long-term or short-term leases, even more so for well-furnished apartments.

                    The same goes for maintenance and running costs. Some tenants will use common property more than others: do excessive laundry, have excessive rubbish, have pets, etc… While others may hardly ever be in the building at all. Holiday renters are hardly the group that would stay at home and do their laundry all day, they would most likely be out exploring or visiting family and friends. 

                     

                    Realtor said:

                    L&E court Orders shut down Oaks running serviced apartments in two Sydney City office buildings..

                    In “Council of the City of Sydney v Oaks Hotels and Resorts (NSW) No.2 Pty Ltd [2010]”, the Oaks group had development consent to use a select apartments within two buildings as serviced, while the group actually used more apartment than it had permission to.

                    #13365
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      Yes, I don't think they were office buildings.  There were two Land and Environment Court judgments in cases between Oaks and Sydney City on March 1 last year.  In one, Oaks had an appeal against a planning application to change one of its buildings from residential to short-term lets refused. In the other, they were allowed a trial period of two years for mixed residential/sort-term rental use in the city, despite City of Sydney objections.  Click on those links to read the judgments in full.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #12200

                      Hi All,

                      You may also wish to look at the case of Whitlam v Hannah in relation to this particular matter… This was an extremely good court decision that supports owners being able to act where an owner is doing the wrong thing.

                      #13366
                      Michele
                      Flatchatter

                        I have been a Chair person of two buildings over the last 10 years and watched the Serviced aapartments grow by stealth in Docklands controlled by govt without any rights to appeal any issues yet alone this one.As the numbers grow so does the security reports of breaches increase especially over weekends. Its not just the issue that some have absolutely no control over their apartment guests but that all owners foot the bill for their profit. They are running a very lucrative business as everyone's expense . Cleaning trolleys and guests with suitcases take over the building on Mondays and Fridays.How is it that  Hotels are expected to build to different complaince regulations than code residential but no one can give a difinative number as to when a building actually becomes a Hotel? This is a chaep way of doing business and in our building the developer runs their own Serviced apartment business under the banner of Mercure. Will it take a major disaster for the Govt to get it right and change the planning laws and stop this stupidity?Frown     

                        #13373
                        Get It Right
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Mr Strata, tried to find the case you are refering to on Austlii, but unsuccessfully.

                          Michelle, the people running serviced apartments must have a council development approval to do it and if they do, it's not illegal. If they don't, the council will eventually take them to task as the have done to Waldorf serviced apartments.

                          Serviced apartments are a step away from holiday rentals. That's an organised multi-apartment business with hotel-like characteristics. The council usually requires special design, such as separate access for serviced apartments, and there are other considerations. Most councils class serviced apartments as commercial activity, whereas holiday-rentals remain residential.

                        Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
                        • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                        Flat Chat Strata Forum Rental rants Current Page